tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post4038703677054393458..comments2023-06-22T07:32:28.491-04:00Comments on Dred Tory: Stephen Harper: True Grit; No TorySir Francishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15052750849770350973noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-30227272191959765282008-04-07T22:28:00.000-04:002008-04-07T22:28:00.000-04:00The fact you are mentioning Diefenbaker is a posit...<I>The fact you are mentioning Diefenbaker is a positive step, that's for sure...</I><BR/><BR/>Hilarious. I've mentioned him <I>twice</I> within a few weeks of blogging. Within a few <I>years</I> of blogging, you've mentioned him, what...once?<BR/><BR/>It would be "positive" if, before you die, you actually learn something about the political tradition to which you think you belong. I cannot say I'm hopeful.<BR/><BR/><I>...it is unfair that you compare a completely different political climate of those times to the current. </I><BR/><BR/>"Unfair"? Ludicrous. <I>You're</I> the one who initially adduced Diefenbaker as one example of real conservatism.<BR/><BR/>What a <I>child</I> you are--unwilling to take personal responsibility for your words and unable to accept the consequences when challenged (and beaten) on a field that you, yourself, have chosen. <BR/><BR/>And please <I>do</I> elaborate as to why Diefenbaker's vision of a strong, proud, and autonomous Canada is somehow irrelevant to the current "climate".Sir Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15052750849770350973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-17434083432845720552008-04-07T22:08:00.000-04:002008-04-07T22:08:00.000-04:00That being said, it is unfair that you compare a c...<I>That being said, it is unfair that you compare a completely different political climate of those times to the current. You know it's intellectually dishonest and most people who don't understand the difference will buy your slant, hook, line and sinker.</I><BR/><BR/>Exactly!<BR/><BR/>That is why people don't like the CPC calling itself "conservative".liberal supporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129945625510633921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-79863424072656117172008-04-07T21:57:00.000-04:002008-04-07T21:57:00.000-04:00The fact you are mentioning Diefenbaker is a posit...The fact you are mentioning Diefenbaker is a positive step, that's for sure. Let's remember how nasty he got at the end when the PC Party united to get rid of him for no good reason. Everyone involved in that paid the price as long as The Chief was still around.<BR/><BR/>That being said, it is unfair that you compare a completely different political climate of those times to the current. You know it's intellectually dishonest and most people who don't understand the difference will buy your slant, hook, line and sinker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-86329606924283770312008-04-07T13:32:00.000-04:002008-04-07T13:32:00.000-04:00oops I forgot:You guys are all crypto liberals! As...oops I forgot:<BR/><BR/>You guys are all crypto liberals! Assholes!liberal supporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129945625510633921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-57844719508969469632008-04-07T13:31:00.000-04:002008-04-07T13:31:00.000-04:00I will fill in for the incognito Rusty Tory:Diefen...I will fill in for the incognito Rusty Tory:<BR/><BR/>Diefenbaker? Two words: Avro Arrow!liberal supporterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01129945625510633921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-62088921124292205162008-04-07T12:50:00.000-04:002008-04-07T12:50:00.000-04:00I agree, which is why we need things like the CBC....I agree, which is why we need things like the CBC. <BR/><BR/>You know what the CPC will do to the CBC if they ever procure a Majority in Parliament.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-36305495490058707192008-04-07T12:48:00.000-04:002008-04-07T12:48:00.000-04:00Oh but there is a "free market" of ideas and mores...Oh but there is a "free market" of ideas and mores for the neo-cons. Problem is that only the ideas with enough financial and political backing are allowed to reach the public en masse. Marginalized voices are allowed, but drowned by the monopoly that corporate voices have on the public media. That's their idea of free market--might is right and it takes money to validate ideas.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498883352676519800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-41976999747958415632008-04-07T11:15:00.000-04:002008-04-07T11:15:00.000-04:00... liberals believe in freedom, but only their co...... liberals believe in freedom, but only their concept of freedom. <BR/><BR/>It is not a very expansive or inclusive ideology. Like socialism it assumes that it is a universalist truth. <BR/><BR/>Tories distrust universalists. We recognise the truth that is particularism.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-31424179979960704372008-04-07T11:12:00.000-04:002008-04-07T11:12:00.000-04:00Of course, a real conservative eschews the very id...Of course, a real conservative eschews the very idea of utopia.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-79187884467220517452008-04-07T11:11:00.000-04:002008-04-07T11:11:00.000-04:00Yes, but as long as there is no free-market of ide...Yes, but as long as there is no free-market of ideas and mores ... another paradox they do not wish to face-up to.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-52280233831683903642008-04-07T10:29:00.000-04:002008-04-07T10:29:00.000-04:00Just finished reading Grant's "In Defense of North...Just finished reading Grant's "In Defense of North America." Just before that I read Frye's "Modern Century." I think when those two works are read in light of eachother, you get the sense of what Harper is doing. Though I doubt Harper would go anywhere near a Canadian author--he prefers Mises and Friedman, I think.<BR/><BR/>The "closed mythology" of neo-Conservativism combined with the promise of a society free of the drudges of collective responsibility, a society of unlimited individual freedoms is what Harper and the CPC's rhetoric promises. As you said "more money in your pocket" without any collective consequences. And somehow, unlike history has taught, the unbridled free market, applied to every aspect of existence, will bring Canada as close to a utopia as ever imagined.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498883352676519800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-77880430334126244562008-04-07T10:03:00.000-04:002008-04-07T10:03:00.000-04:00Altemeyer's work/analysis dovetails quite well wit...Altemeyer's work/analysis dovetails quite well with some of the work done on neo-fascism, which is really a movement that promises to re-integrate those who feel alienated from contemporary society but don't know why. <BR/><BR/>People become alienated for a variety of reasons, but the New Right does a fairly good job at tribalising the alienated by the uses of slogans and symbols and easy-to-understand concepts. <BR/><BR/>Because people can relate to micro-economic analogies (we all grocery shop ...) for example, the New Right uses the application of Laffer Curve-driven Tax-Cuts in the US in the 1980 to trot-out the "big lie" that a reduction in taxes ALWAYS leads to economic stimulation and increased tax revenues. Well, not always and not for the reasons Laffer contends. <BR/><BR/>But because, it is generally believed to be true, and is an economic concept that is attractive (more money in my pocket, a growing economy, AND increased revenue for the gov't: sign me up!), and BECAUSE it is repeated enough to be though to be a general rule, well then, the right-wing horde believe it as much as they believe that Men walked along the Dinosaur.<BR/><BR/>The alienation of man from society comes not because society has become immoral, or because man is alienated from his labour, but because man has become a commodity - a means to an end.<BR/><BR/>I think the answer can be found in Plato, the New Testament, Augustine, Kant & Ellul. However, as a devotee of George Grant I believe that Grant, in fact, unlocked the door to this mystery - and he did so 40-50 years ago.<BR/><BR/>The liberal order is a very attractive order to individuals; it promises freedom, wealth, and technology. What no one wants to face-up to is that all these things come at a price.<BR/><BR/>The followers of the New Right are what I typically call-out as the bourgeoisie and lumpenproletariat; I do not do that to deride them, but to point-out that they are the financially co-opted and anti-intellectual mass that looks to simple solutions to complex problems. <BR/><BR/>This was the same cohort that Hitler manipulated so easily during the early 1930's. Now I do not mean to imply that the CPC is the new Nazi Party; but what I do mean is that the CPC uses many of the same methods on the same kind of people as neo-fascist parties do across the West. I also contend that these things are done somewhat unconsciously. To the same end, however ... which is, or COULD be: <BR/><BR/>*a reduction in Liberty via the promise of more Liberty; <BR/><BR/>*a reduction of wealth via the promise of more wealth; <BR/><BR/>*a reduction of tolerance via the promise of more tolerance; <BR/><BR/>*a reduction of war and terror via the promise of more war and terror. <BR/><BR/>Ultimately, a portion of the masses have been awakened, and for reasons they don't understand, they are pissed-off. In their eyes it is time for payback. In the eyes of their masters, it is time for power and money. <BR/><BR/>What they REALLY don't understand is that it is the "Puppet Masters" who are the cause of their original grief. Instead, the dance about like the marionettes they are ...Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-23476078038528075632008-04-07T09:59:00.000-04:002008-04-07T09:59:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-73558474510247712832008-04-07T04:10:00.000-04:002008-04-07T04:10:00.000-04:00Am I the only one that is amused/astonished...Not ...<I>Am I the only one that is amused/astonished...</I><BR/><BR/>Not at all. Neo-conservatism is highly authoritarian, and its devotees absolutely require a "strong man" figure. Robert Altemeyer of the University of Manitoba has written extensively about <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Altemeyer" REL="nofollow">this</A>. John Dean (of Watergate fame) applied Altemeyer's theory in an analysis of the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatives_Without_Conscience" REL="nofollow">Bush administration</A>.Sir Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15052750849770350973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-70158704887767225812008-04-06T22:31:00.000-04:002008-04-06T22:31:00.000-04:00Am I the only one that is amused/astonished at the...Am I the only one that is amused/astonished at the irony of a party that preaches personal and individual freedom while single-mindedly revering the idea of a demagogue/strong leader steering towards a political nirvana?Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498883352676519800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-12051586727695952822008-04-06T17:19:00.000-04:002008-04-06T17:19:00.000-04:00Ryan — I haven't read the book, but was just skimm...Ryan — I haven't read the book, but was just skimming through some of the extracts on that link you provided. Very interesting. <BR/><BR/><I>It's amazing what you can persuade them to do once you convince them that it's the leader who is telling them.</I><BR/><BR/>— Stephen Harper (when Policy Chief, Reform Party of Canada)<BR/><BR/>The section on "Managing the Membership" was especially amusing in hindsight given the events of last week.Red Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00422305796158017027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-51730148486268840332008-04-06T16:21:00.000-04:002008-04-06T16:21:00.000-04:00This book sums it up pretty well:http://books.goog...This book sums it up pretty well:<BR/><BR/>http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&id=tqF1zUgm828C&dq=preston+manning+and+the+reform+party&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=bwFCfcxaM3&sig=j75Td3qAPUi1O8mwi0DNotItRR4<BR/><BR/>My favourite part is the contempt that EC and Preston had for the likes of Diefenbaker & Robert Stanfield. They simply weren't ideological enough, apparently.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498883352676519800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-35385374755391308332008-04-06T12:50:00.000-04:002008-04-06T12:50:00.000-04:00Ryan: And THAT was Preston's dream - to realise h...Ryan: <BR/><BR/>And THAT was Preston's dream - to realise his Father's dream.<BR/><BR/>Are WE the only ones who realised the implications of EC Manning's "Political Realignment, a Challenge to Thoughtful Canadians." <BR/><BR/>I own a copy and read it as a primer on what the Reform Party was all about.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-39988166938424481732008-04-06T11:32:00.000-04:002008-04-06T11:32:00.000-04:00Excellent post. Just the fact that the Conservativ...Excellent post. Just the fact that the Conservatives have no sense of history makes them classical liberals.<BR/><BR/>Next they'll probably be appealing to R.B. Bennett to dismantle the welfare state and John A. Macdonald for "provincial rights."<BR/><BR/>The current CPC's roots can only be traced as far back as Ernest Manning.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01498883352676519800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3260545195755894149.post-60157728296404667122008-04-06T11:15:00.000-04:002008-04-06T11:15:00.000-04:00Of course, you know that I challenged him to eithe...Of course, you know that I challenged him to either retract his post, or amend it. Being devoid of honour, he instead told me to shove-off and stick-it. <BR/><BR/>And then he prattled-on about how perhaps the CPC is - in light of our criticisms - NOT right wing ENOUGH. This I took to imply that he really despises the Tory Tradition in Canada and would like to see it eradicated. <BR/><BR/>On top of all this, he continues to maintain that he is a devotee of Brock. <BR/><BR/>I really feel that he is either: <BR/><BR/>* Unbelievably Stupid; or<BR/><BR/>* Insane. <BR/><BR/>You make your own call on the matter.Aeneas the Youngerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235737108817968315noreply@blogger.com